ࡱ> {}z%` 8bjbj"x"x 0H@@0 ,ZBBBBB-//////$dhSSBBhfBB--B6 @Ae4-~0SSZZZZZZ School of History, Classics and Archaeology History Subject Area History Honours Staff Student Liaison Committee meeting Wednesday 2nd December 2009 Room G.04 WRB at 1.00pm Minutes Present Dr James Fraser (Chair) Dr Felix Boecking Melissa Birbeck Mrs Kathy Christie (School Undergraduate Administrator) Katherine Cranston-Turner Elizabeth Finlayson Miss Louise Fleming (Minutes) Dr Adam Fox Brittany Harbidge Dr Fabian Hilfrich Katie Jennings Alex Lewix Dr Francesca Locatelli Robert Macdonald Caroline Paterson Aisling Redmond-Hewett Susie Shields Rebecca Stafford Alex Thomson Harry Wright 1. Apologies and Introduction from Chair Dr James Fraser apologised on behalf of Dr Ewen Cameron, Head of History, who had been due to Chair the meeting but had been called to a School Management Committee meeting at the last minute. Dr James Fraser introduced himself, and explained that Dr Cameron had asked him to chair the meeting in his place, and in his role as School QAE Representative. Dr Fraser explained that this was the first meeting of the History Honours Staff Student Liaison Committee, which represented all the History sections, following the amalgamation of the three History subject areas over the summer. He outlined the structure of the meeting, which would begin with communications from staff, before opening to all students for comments on issues they would like to raise. Dr Fraser noted that although students have a number of opportunities to provide feedback to staff, meetings with a format such as this gave students the chance to not only voice their opinions, but also for staff to respond to them. 2. Communications from Staff National Student Survey Information Dr Fraser highlighted the information that was being circulated to fourth year students from the Head of School, Prof Tom Devine, on the National Student Survey. He explained the importance of the National Student Survey both for the University of Edinburgh, and also for the School, emphasising the need for a good response rate. Dr Fraser stated that if, for example, only 54% of students respond, while this gives an indications of their thoughts and feelings, it is still difficult to know what the other 46% of students who didnt respond thought on the issues raised. He welcomed all thoughts and comments on this. Dr Fraser also explained that last year, students who didnt complete the survey were contacted by an external company, Ipsos MORI, an independent market research company who were responsible for administering the survey. He reported that these students were often annoyed by the continued attempts of this company to contact them regarding the survey. Dr Fraser also apologised on behalf of the School in advance if such communications did occur again this year, but commented that these communications from others couldnt be controlled. Library matters: eReserve Dr Felix Boecking, School Library representative, explained to all present about the use of eReserve in the School. He remarked that the Library had initially promoted the service, but the unanticipated large uptake by Schools meant that the Library were now encountering difficulties with continuing funding to meet the demand. He asked all present to contact him with any thoughts or comments they had on the eReserve service, or to email their relevant course organiser who would then pass their comments on. 3. Communications from Student Representatives A number of issues were raised from students, which centred around the following topics as detailed. Assessment of Tutorial Participation and Student Presentations It was asked by one student whether the Subject Area had considered assessing Honours students on their participation in tutorials and seminar. She remarked that in her experience, it was the same students who prepared every week while others who didnt benefited from it. She also asked why student presentations in seminars were not marked, as many students clearly put a lot of work and time into preparing these for class, comparable to the amount of work students put into writing an assessed essay. Dr Fraser responded by explaining that some Honours courses have this year introduced marks for presentation and participation (worth approximately 10%), but that it was a topic which sparked wide-ranging views amongst the academic staff. He also remarked that some academics felt uneasy in awarding marks to students for presentation and participation skills which cannot be validated by an external examiner, however he felt that more courses would move towards adopting these components of assessment. Dr Fabian Hilfrich asked the committee is there was anyone present who was strongly against the assessment of non-written skills, and four students raised their hands in agreement. One student commented that they felt tutorial participation was ultimately more difficult for reserved students, and that simply assessing class participation was also quite vague. Dr Fabian Hilfrich commented that in his courses where tutorial participation and presentations were assessed, he felt that it had been found by students as an incentive to speak up, and had seen an increase in participation and an improvement in presentations. Another student also remarked that as participation wasnt assessed, they felt that they didnt have to participate sometimes and as such didnt force themselves to do so. Another also asked how they would create an objective model for participation marking to ensure that students were being marked fairly, and that this was standardised throughout the School. One student also said that they found it difficult to justify asking students to do something, such as a presentation, without being marked for it. Dr Francesca Locatelli explained that she was personally looking forward to introducing aspects of presentation and participation assessment into her classes. She explained to all present that she felt that although at present her students are not marked for their presentations, students who gave excellent presentations and participated well in class ultimately got better results in exams. She strongly urged students not to be put off by the fact that their presentations arent assessed. Weightings of Components of Assessment One student commented that they were surprised that the courses that had adopted marks for presentations had only weighted these at 10% of the total mark, particularly when compared to American institutions. He explained that he felt it should be more, as presentation skills were transferable skills being taught to students, whereas skills in examination technique were less likely to be used by students after University. Dr Fraser responded by explaining that not many Universities in the UK who mark student presentations give them more than a weighting of 10%. He also explained that American institutions also have a different way of validating marks, and these are not done externally. One student had asked whether presentations could be recorded and sent to external examiners. Dr Fraser remarked that external examiners were already under a great deal of pressure, but felt that the History template for assessment components did require reviewing. He also commented that in this technological era, holding an exam is the only mechanism to ensure that it is the students own work which is being assessed. Another student commented that they also felt that too much weighting was placed on students exam marks, and that they felt that coursework can be a better assessment of the longevity of academic excellence. Dr Fraser thanked everyone for their comments on these subjects, and said that these were clearly important issues for students. Dissertations One fourth-year student commented that there were wide-ranging variations in the amounts and types of supervision that students were getting for their dissertations. She highlighted that some students had reported to her that they were receiving two half-hour meetings with supervisors as stated in their handbooks, but that other supervisors had offered to look at drafts of chapters, and some also held weekly meetings with their students. She commented that it was not fair for all students to be marked and judged to the same standard given these differences in supervision time. Dr James Fraser thanked the student for her comments, and said that this issue would be looked into further. History in Practice/History in Theory There was some discussion over the two compulsory third-year courses, History in Practice and History in Theory. One fourth-year student commented that some of the current third-year students had reported also finding the courses difficult to follow as some of them had done last year. She asked Dr Fraser whether any changes had been made to the courses from last year. Dr Fraser explained that over the summer he had attended many meetings about these courses, and wanted to highlight the many positive aspects that students had also reported about the courses. He highlighted the changes that had been made to the number of pathways and the course handbooks following student feedback. Dr Fraser also noted that it appeared the main issue concerning these courses appeared to be where they fit in best into the degree programme. He explained that this had generated large debate when these courses were being initially proposed, and that they had tried to minimize the knock-on effect this would have on other course choices. Economic and Social History and Scottish History were used as examples which had previously had similar courses to these which had been very successful. General comments on the two courses were also made, with students reporting that they had found the workshops and pathways to have been helpful. Honours Course Choices and the Allocation Process There was some discussion about the way that Honours courses are allocated to students, and whether it was fair on students to allocate randomly. Dr Fraser explained that this system was introduced this year to promote fairness to everyone, with one student particularly commenting that they had found it fair. She explained that although she hadnt received all the choices she would have liked, being put on different courses which she wouldnt have necessarily chosen has developed her interests in other areas. The idea of formalizing a swapping arrangement for students who wished to change courses after allocation was also discussed, which was felt by students to be a good idea. There was also some discussion about class sizes, and whether it would be possible to run courses twice which were over-subscribed. It was noted by Dr Fabian Hilfrich that it simply wasnt possible to run a seminar with over 40 people, and Dr Fraser also commented that running courses twice just wasnt feasible in terms of other teaching and research commitments that academics had. One student also asked if she could have got an explanation as to why she didnt get her first choice courses, and described that she had felt disappointed at receiving an impersonal email about her choices after preparing and looking forward to being put on this course. Monitoring of Staff Teaching The issue of how staff teaching was monitored was also discussed. One student had asked how this was monitored by the University, commenting that there was often differences between teaching styles and the balance of teaching amongst Honours classes. Dr Fraser clarified the quality assurance proceses, and explained that a number of mechanisms were in place in the School to review teaching, such as course questionnaires, and also that colleagues also monitored and observed each other either annually or on a bi-annual basis. Dr Fraser also explained the processes around marking, and how it was carried out to ensure standardization of marks in line with the University marking scheme. 4. AOB One student asked about how spelling was marked in exam situations, and whether students were marked down for poor spelling. Dr Fraser clarified that it should only count where spelling is listed as an intended learning outcome, but that feedback was also obtained from an external examiner on this. He also advised about the services that the Disability Office offer for anyone with learning disabilities. Dr Fraser then thanked everyone for their comments, and closed the meeting. W cd3NR) %%_&o&&)O)..4 4668 h(a h%Gh(a h%G5>*h(a h%G>*h%Gh(a h%G5H*h(a h%G5#,ABz4 N b   $a$gd%G8 * ; H U V W cd23MNQR()#$=> Q"R"`#a# % %%%_&`&n&o&o&''((')()N)O)n*o***,,--.....M/N/n1o1224444 466666t8u88 .:p%G|. 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T/_̇@?@@L^ipDr Felix BoeckingH!8,3B2,,221TT/_̇@?@@L^iP . Ty _̇@?@@L^ilMelissa BirbeckY,'',B!2-,2TTz _̇@?@@zL^iP . Td  _̇@?@@o L^iTMrs Y!'T  _̇@?@@o 3L^iKathy Christie (School Undergraduate Administrator)H,40C2!',!8,322H22,"1!,23,,H2N2'!,2!!TT  F _̇@?@@ o L^iP . T  _̇@?@@ L^ipKatherine CranstonH,2,!2,C",2'22TT  _̇@?@@ L^iP-!Tp * _̇@?@@ L^iXTurner=2!3,!TT+ X _̇@?@@+ L^iP . T l _̇@?@@U L^itElizabeth Finlayson=-,2,272-0'22TT  7l _̇@?@@ U L^iP . Tn  _̇@?@@ L^iMiss Louise Fleming (Minutes)Y'';22',7,N21!Z22,'!TTn  _̇@?@@ L^iP - T R _̇@?@@; L^idDr Adam FoxH!H2,N723TT FR _̇@?@@; L^iP - TT  _̇@?@@ L^ipBrittany HarbidgeB!,40H-!222,TTT  _̇@?@@ L^iP . T 8 _̇@?@@! L^ipDr Fabian HilfrichH!8,2,2H!!,2TT 8 _̇@?@@! L^iP &" WMFC T. T: < _̇@?@@ L^ihKatie JenningsH,,(,2221'TT=: j _̇@?@@= L^iP . T  _̇@?@@ L^i`Alex LewixH,3<,H3TT  _̇@?@@ L^iP - T { _̇@?@@z L^ixDr Francesca LocatelliH!7",2-,',,<3,,,TT|  _̇@?@@|z L^iP . T _̇@?@@ L^ilRobert MacdonaldC22,!Y,,222,2TT _̇@?@@ L^iP . T w_̇@?@@` L^ihCaroline PateC,!22,8,,Td w_̇@?@@ `L^iTrson!'22TTw_̇@?@@`L^iP . Ty_̇@?@@L^ilAisling RedmondH'21C,2N222TTy_̇@?@@L^iP-!Tpy_̇@?@@L^iXHewettH-H,TTy!_̇@?@@L^iP - T]_̇@?@@F L^ihSusie Shields82',82,2'TT2]_̇@?@@FL^iP , T__̇@?@@L^ilRebecca StaffordC,2,,-,8,!!2!2TT__̇@?@@L^iP . TCC_̇@?@@, L^idAlex ThomsonH,3=22N'22TTDoC_̇@?@@D,L^iP , TE _̇@?@@ L^idHarry WrightH,!#0_!12TT E8_̇@?@@ L^iP . TT)_̇@?@@L^iP - TT+_̇@?@@L^iP - Rp@Times New Roman#1 00|ˮ0`1 0 !0%8<kT0/ 00P Gz Times ew Roman?h )00lN0dv% % T`Q_̇@?@@L^iT1. 2TTR_̇@?@@RL^iP T, _̇@?@@%L^iApologies and Introduction from ChairH8222,'288'8!,278,!28",2RH82,'% Ld  !??% ( TT  _̇@?@@ L^iP 7 % TT_̇@?@@kL^iP - T _̇@?@@NL^iDr James Fraser apologised on behalf of Dr Ewen Cameron, Head of History, who H!(,N,'7!,(,!,2231(,2222,2,!3!H!=I,2C,N,!22H-,22!H'2"0H22 Tl h_̇@?@@Q0L^ihad been due to Chair the meeting but had been c2,22,,223,2C2,!2,N,,31222,22-,2-T h_̇@?@@ QL^ialled to a School Management ,,22,8,222Y,2-1-N,2 T jm_̇@?@@NL^iCommittee meeting at the last minute. Dr James Fraser introduced himself, and C2NN,,N,,21,3,,'N22,H!(,N,'8!,',!2!223,,22N',!,22 TPlN_̇@?@@7VL^iexplained that Dr Cameron had asked him to chair the meeting in his place, and in his ,32,2,22,H!C,N,"222,2,'2,22N2,2,!2,N,,3122'2,,-,2222' T P_̇@?@@#L^irole as School QAE Representative. !2,,'8,222HH=C,3",',2,2,TTP_̇@?@@L^iP . TT4_̇@?@@L^iP - T6_̇@?@@L^iDr Fraser explained that tH!7",',!,32,2,22,T6h_̇@?@@7L^ihis was the first meeting of the History Honours Staff 2'H,'2,!!'N,,312!2,H'2#0H2222!'9,!! TLX_̇@?@@UL^iStudent Liaison Committee, which represented all the History sections, following the 822,2;,'22C2NN,,H2,2",2 &WMFCT",',2,2,2,H'2"0(,,22'!22H212, T4_̇@?@@vQL^iamalgamation of the three History subject areas over the summer. He outlined the ,N,2,N,222!2,2!-,H'2"0'22,,,",,'32,!2,'2NN,!I,222,22, T _̇@?@@#L^istructure of the meeting, which wou'!2,2!,2!2,O,,31H2,2H22Tl@_̇@?@@0L^ild begin with communications from staff, before 22-12H2,2NN22,,22'!!2N'-!!2,!3!, T@s_̇@?@@\SL^iopening to all students for comments on issues they would like to raise. Dr Fraser 22,2212,'22,2'!3!,2NN,2'22''2,'2,0H2222,2!,(,H!7!,(,! T@u_̇@?@@SL^inoted that although students have a number of opportunities to provide feedback to 22,22,,22212'22-2'2,2,,22N2,!3!2232!22,'22!222,!,,32,,22 THT Y_̇@?@@B*L^istaff, meetings with a format such as this',!!N,,31'H2,!3"N,'2,2,'2'TTU !Y_̇@?@@U B,L^i gave students the chance to not only voice 1,3,'32,2'2,,2,2-,22222022,, T[ _̇@?@@6L^itheir opinions, but also for staff to respond to them.2,!22222'22,'2!2!',!!2!,'222222-NTT [$ _̇@?@@ L^iP -% 6i6^i6^66h6]h6]66g6\g6\66f6[f6[66e6Ze6Z66d6Yd6Y66c6Xc6X66b6Wb6W66a6Va6V6 6 `6U`6U 6  6 _6T_6T 6  6 ^6S^6S 6  6 ]6R]6R 6  6 \6Q\6Q 6 6[6P[6P66Z6OZ6O66Y6NY6N66X6MX6M66W6LW6L6  H."System-@Times New Roman- L2 u+JSchool of History, Classics and Archaeology              2 uDJ )2 XJHistory Subject Area      2 J  2 J ^2 7JHistory Honours Staff Student Liaison Committee meeting              2 zJ @Times New Roman---2 4 JWednesday 2  -2 Jnd- 2 J December 2009     2 J .2 ?JRoom G.04 WRB at 1.00pm       2 J  2 J 2 JMinutes   2 J  2 J @Times New Roman- 2 $J @Times New Roman--2 7JPresent - @ !29- 2 7J  2 KJ .2 ^JDr James Fraser (Chair)     2 ^#J %2 qJDr Felix BoeckingC      2 qJ "2 JMelissa Birbeck  2 J 2 JMrs X2 3JKathy Christie (School Undergraduate Administrator)t            2 J &2 JKatherine Cranston    2 J-2  JTurner  2 7J (2 JElizabeth Finlaysona     2 J 72 JMiss Louise Fleming (Minutes)      2 WJ 2  JDr Adam Fox     2 J %2 JBrittany Harbidgeo     2 J &2 JDr Fabian Hilfrich      2 J  2 JKatie Jennings    2 J 2 4 JAlex Lewix    2 4J ,2 GJDr Francesca Locatelli    2 GJ #2 [JRobert Macdonald    2 [J 2 n JCaroline Pate  2 nJrson  2 nJ "2 JAisling Redmond     2 J-2 JHewett   2 .J 2  JSusie Shields    2 J #2 JRebecca Stafford    2 J 2  JAlex Thomson    2 J 2  JHarry Wright  2 J  2 J  2 J @Times New Roman--2 J1.  2 J "C2 %JApologies and Introduction from Chair       - @ !Q - 2 J - 2 J 2 1NJDr James Fraser apologised on behalf of Dr Ewen Cameron, Head of History, who                  S2 D0Jhad been due to Chair the meeting but had been c          72 DJalled to a School Management        2 WNJCommittee meeting at the last minute. 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